April 11, 2024
Journeys in Queer Advocacy and Education Authenticity
Teaching While Queer, Season 2, Episode 30
When Zachary Zahand (he/him), a dynamic middle school theater teacher, stepped into my studio, I knew we were about to embark on a profound exploration of queer education and identity. Together, we unravel Zachary's colorful tapestry of experiences, from the shift in teaching environments to the layers of queer identity that transcend the simple dichotomy of gay or queer. This revelatory exchange with Zachary peels back the veil on the complexities of embracing one's full self amidst the weave of professional life and personal growth.
Navigating the educational landscape as an LGBTQ educator carries its unique set of challenges and moments of triumph. This episode delves into the life-changing impact of supportive family, the power of inclusive language, and the creation of safe spaces where students can flourish. As we wade into the conversation, we acknowledge the shared narratives of educators like us, including the famed Willie Carver's poetic journey, underscoring the transformative power of authenticity in the classroom, and the necessity of being seen and heard for the diverse students we serve.
Wrapping up our heartfelt dialogue, Zachary and I offer a guiding light for LGBTQ educators, especially those in the public school trenches. We discuss the importance of finding support, whether through unions or associations, and share practical advice for maintaining a healthy work-life balance. This episode stands as a testament to the progress we've made and the roads still to travel, offering solace and solidarity to those shaping young minds while navigating their own queer identities. Join us for an episode that not only enlightens but empowers, as we affirm the unyielding strength of living and teaching with authenticity.
To be a guest or to hear more episodes visit www.teachingwhilequeer.com.
Follow Teaching While Queer on Instagram at @TeachingWhileQueer.
You can find host, Bryan Stanton, on Instagram.
Support the podcast by becoming a subscriber. For information click here.
Chapters
00:26 - Teaching While Queer Podcast Interview
15:43 - Supportive Family and Inclusive Teaching
20:28 - Promoting Inclusive Language in Education
27:48 - Importance of Authenticity in Education
38:29 - Supporting LGBTQ Educators in Public Schools
Transcript
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Teaching While Queer is a podcast for 2SLGBTQIA+ educational professionals to share their experiences in academia.
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Hi, I'm your host, Bryan Stanton, a theater pedagogue and educator in New York City, and my goal is to share stories from around the world from 2SLGBTQIA+ educators.
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I hope you enjoy Teaching While Queer.
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Hello everyone and welcome to another episode of Teaching While Queer.
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I am your host, Bryan Stanton.
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My pronouns are he/t hey.
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Today I have the privilege to speak with Zachary uh.
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Zahand uh, did I say your name correctly?
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yes, this happens to me a lot I did.
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That's a win.
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I'm so happy.
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Like my brain, I will hear something, I will learn something, and then like I've've got it, but then I second guess myself.
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So welcome to a day in the life of me.
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I'm constantly second guessing.
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Awesome.
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Well, Zachary, why don't you go ahead and tell our listeners a little bit about yourself?
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Yeah, so my name is Zachary Zahand, I am from Virginia, I go by Mr Z or just Z, and I have been teaching.
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This is now my third year with public school, but prior to this I was in private preschool for a while, a long time.
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It was long enough to make me want to switch, so yeah, teaching for three years in public school and enjoying mostly every second of it.
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What grades do you teach?
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What do you teach in public school?
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I teach middle school all grades six, seventh and eighth, and I teach middle school theater.
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You are so brave because you like, went from preschool to middle school and I feel like in my spectrum of things like.
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Those are the last two places I want to be um.
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It is really funny how I got the job um, because when I was applying um, I was applying for anything from office work in public schools, to elementary school, to high schools and then a county called me and said so like what about middle school?
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And I always said I was never going to do middle school.
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And here I am and I honestly love it.
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Once I figured out that middle schoolers are just like everybody else, they just need some love, maybe a little extra attention, I feel like I got a decent hang of it.
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Yeah, absolutely.
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I think that everybody finds the place that they're meant to be at eventually.
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And it's funny because middle school was one of those things where I thought that's what I was gonna do.
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I got my uh initial teaching certificate in social studies and I was like I would love to teach eighth grade history and like teach these kids about the American Revolution and American history and whatnot.
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And then I went to observations and was like no, thank you.
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Yeah, so I started applying at high schools and ended up, you know, teaching theater at high school, which is fun.
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So just so, that way everybody's on the same page.
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How do you identify within the LGBTQ community?
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Yes, sorry about that.
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Um, I do identify.
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So within the community, I identify as queer.
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Um, however, without outside of the community, I just tell people I'm gay, it's just.
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I found it to be so much easier and simpler to explain, instead of having to explain my queerness every time somebody talks to me about it when they're not in the community, where they just don't get it fair enough.
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And for you personally, what?
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What do you think the difference between the two is?
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if you don't mind me asking I can answer that from my perspective.
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Um, that's the whole point of this.
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Yeah, um, in 20, yeah, it was 2020.
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Um, I had this like big awakening of I'm not just attracted to, um, cisgendered gay men, uh, I started finding myself attracted to also non-binary people, and so I had this like big kind of I don't know and so I felt like, because I didn't know and because I was allowing myself to just feel instead of having to label every little thing, that's when I started going by queer.
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Fair enough, I think that's it started going by queer Fair enough.
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I think that's an interesting observation.
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I find that as we go through life, we're kind of told that we have to put ourselves in these sort of boxes, in these binaries that exist, and so it's like, okay, you're gay, great, you like men, cisgender men, and that's all there is to it, right.
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And then you know, I agree with you wholeheartedly.
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And then I find myself attracted to a wider spectrum of genders and realizing that more as an adult than I did as a younger person.
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So queer is definitely much more authentic for myself as well.
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And it's funny because I don't know.
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I say I'm queer all the time because I'm not gonna explain it, I'll be, I'll be like I'm queer, leave it alone like yeah if you have questions, go pick, go pick up a dictionary.
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I can offer you several readings on queer theory if you like.
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Like I, I will be glad to point you in the direction of the research.
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But I don't need to educate you on it but.
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I totally understand how it's much simpler to be like I'm as a queer student.
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Yeah, so I feel like I had a pretty unique upbringing as far as my queerness goes, because while all of my friends were in public or private schools, I was actually homeschooled.
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And not only was I homeschooled, I grew up in a I don't want to use the term religious, because I hate that term, but spiritual family, and so my life was being at home and being at church and I knew I was different from probably the age of five and really started picking up on things like oh wait, I really am different.
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When I was about in middle school and I remember having to stifle myself, stifle who I was, just to try and fit in, even though I never could accomplish that.
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I mean, I was a walking target for anybody and everybody.
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You know, I was always much more feminine than the other boys growing up, no matter how much I worked at it, and it was exhausting, um.
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I remember just crying often, um, thinking you know why?
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Why, god, why did you make me like this and why?
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Why couldn't it have been someone else?
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But no, it has to be me and I.
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I used to think I was the only one.
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Um, because I grew up in a small town.
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There were not many of us, um, still probably aren't back in that small town, and so it was.
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It was a time I ended up not coming out until I had graduated college, because I knew I wanted to one have it figured out, whatever that means when we come out, and then to be stable enough to be on my own, because I didn't know how my family and friends were going to respond, and so that's kind of where it's led me to today.
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Absolutely way to approach it, because I think that for some people there's just this like innate desire that I have to be out right now, uh, and like damn the consequences, yeah, um, but, and and know that like being closeted is very difficult.
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so I'm not trying to negate that for anybody, but I think that's such an interesting perspective to bring to the table, um, that you know you have to be prepared for whatever happens after you say these words, right, um, and all of us are, you know, I think everybody's a little bit prepared for the worst, yeah, um, and so I think you truly have to be prepared.
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There's a difference in expecting something to happen and then it actually happening, and so I think that that is a little bit of wisdom I would take away for those who might be listening, who are in the closet, that, like, you really need to be prepared for any situation.
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You might run into a situation where you're confident that your parents are going to disown you and then they're like, yeah, we knew when you were three.
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And then you might have the situation where, like, it actually happens, and so I think that you truly have to be prepared, and there's a lot of work that goes into that, and, as I've said many times on this podcast, I'm a huge fan of therapy, and so that's one of those things that you might talk about, like your therapist may be the first person that you get to like truly be yourself with and figure out figure out things with um.
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So just out of curiosity, how did it go?
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um, okay, when you finally came out.
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So my coming out actually took two years to complete.
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For me, the first, really the first person back home that I told was my older brother, and he something shifted where he became this like protective older brother.
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Up until that point, we were just brothers, you know.
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We were normal, like, oh, we're gonna fight here and there and then we'll love each other later.
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But ever since I came out to him, he has just been this like really protective, like are you okay, Are you safe?
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You know you're safe at my house.
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You can bring whoever you want back to my house if you want them to visit.
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So that was like, okay, rip that bandaid off.
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Maybe this is going to be a lot easier than I expected.
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And then I continued telling the rest of my siblings.
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My friends had great conversations and then it was during 2020, we were about three or four months into lockdown when I was so fed up that I was not living at home at the time, so I drove two hours, sob.
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My mother was like, okay, I thought we knew this Because it had always been like a kind of like this thing in the background, and I said you're right, but I need you to know that I'm accepting it and I'm no longer going to try and pray anything away, because it's who I am and it's who I choose to be.
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I'm not trying to push it away anymore.
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I'm opening up myself to my true authenticity and while my mom doesn't agree, she has made it clear that I'm her, her child, I'm her favorite middle child is what she calls me, and that she'll always love me and that I'm always welcome at her house.
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And you know we just had a conversation a couple months ago about how.
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I asked her I said do you think you're going to come to my wedding whenever I get married?
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And I wasn't sure what to expect, but she told me I wouldn't miss that for the world.
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Um, now my dad.
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Um, I have seen my father cry three, three times in my life.
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Three times in my life Once when his best friend passed away.
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Once when he was having like major pain in his knee and like something had like hit it really bad.
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And the third time was when I had come out to him.
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He didn't say a word, he walked out of the room and I just like sat there kind of looking at mom and she's like you have to give him time.
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And that was such a great thing for me to hear in that moment because I've had time to deal with this Mom, sort of had time to deal with this Dad.
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However, I never really talked to about like my personal things.
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Growing up I always went to mom and so he gets himself together for about 15 minutes.
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He comes back into the house still in tears and he goes.
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You know how I feel.
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And I said I do, I absolutely do.
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He goes.
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You know that I love you.
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I said I absolutely do.
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He says I don't know what else to say and I told him.
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I said do?
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He says I don't know what else to say and I told him.
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I said I don't need you to say anything else.
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I didn't need you to respond at all.
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I just wanted you to know.
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This is what's happening Now.
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It was after I left that weekend that I come to find out my family.
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They were having like a Sunday dinner something we always love to do and mom brings it up and she goes.
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So Zachary's gay and the brothers are like yeah, he told us two years ago, and she goes.
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And you know, like my mother, I love her, she goes.
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Well, I, I knew before then, um, but they had this great conversation about, you know, still needing to be there for me.
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We're still family.
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It was a really good conversation, based off of what I heard from my older brother, just about how we're still, no matter what, all together.
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And I had chosen to come out at a really weird time too, because prior to, my brother had just become ordained at a church, so we have one brother becoming a pastor and then one brother becoming this out homosexual.
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So that was really fun for the community to see.
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Ooh, what are the Zahams doing?
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So, that was my my coming out story, summed up real fast.
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That's such a great story, I think one is that you had the support of your brother from like from the start.
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You've got the mom going like yes, and then that that idea that you need to give, give someone time to process I think it's really important because I think that's where a lot of queer people actually fail themselves is this idea that I've told you this thing and you have to accept and affirm it right, this second, yeah, yeah.
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And I think that that's not fair, it's not human to do that, and so you're absolutely correct in saying you know I had time to process this, my mom had time to process this, and he composed himself in 15 minutes to be able to say some things, and even that I think it's like it's too fast, right?
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I mean, he did a great job because he came back and he affirmed the things you needed to know, and the most important one was that I love you needed to know, and the most important one was that I love you.
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You know it was.
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It was in those moments that I I started crying because I was convinced and oh, my mom doesn't want me to say this, but I'm going to I was convinced that, um, I was going to be disowned.
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Um, a big reason that I didn't come out until I was 23, um was I was so scared that I was going to be sent off to like a special center, some type of facility, and that really hurt my mom, Um, because, you know, that wasn't even ever a thought for her.
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Um, though she might not agree with it, she still wants me to be happy, and so we have some good conversations to this day.
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She loves questioning everything and wanting to know everything, and we even started watching a little after I had come out to her.
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We started watching RuPaul's Drag Race and that was actually really educational for her, and she would ask questions Okay, what's, what are top and bottoms?
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I don't get that, and so having to explain that was an interesting time.
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But you know she's learning and I love that she's open to learning.
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Look at that RuPaul's Drag Race Bringing families together.
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There you go.
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It's funny because my sister-in-law watches it, and so then, by affiliation, my brother does, and so we're planning a trip in June for our younger brother's wedding, and it's outside of Vegas.
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I was like, well, you're staying at the Flamingo and there's a RuPaul's Drag Race show there, so obviously we're gonna have to do that yeah, bring in families together, families together.
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I love that.
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So, thinking about your, your childhood, how do you think that it influences your working with children now and how you work with?
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children, um, yeah, so okay, I think for me, I've learned to word things carefully and be very mindful of my syntax and how I'm saying everything, because I want to be mindful that students aren't always.
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Students are never always going to be on the same journey, the same path, because I was never like that.
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I'm always going to be on the same journey, the same path because I was never like that.
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And so when people were talking to me about when you get married and you have your wife to take care of, I never saw myself like that, and so now my biggest thing is one they know they're safe in my classroom.
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Two, they know they're protected and they're validated, um.
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But.
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Three, they are, and I think the most important is their scene, um, because something I really try and do is use gender inclusive uh language, um, so it's never he or she, it's with me, it's always them, um, and so I'm always talking about oh, is that your, is that your person, like, for example?
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That's what I always say instead of, is that your boyfriend or girlfriend or whoever you know?
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It's always with me.
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I'm just very careful with the language that I use to try and make it as inclusive as possible.
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I think that's fantastic and I also love that, like I'm seeing this push happening in elementary education where, instead of referring to adults as like parents or guardians or whatever they'll say, like is your adult, give this to your adult.
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Um, and to me as a a parent who adopted my children, I think that's so important because, like I have experienced at times, my children shutting down when someone's like here, give this to your mom, they don't have one and they don't know how to respond, or, at the time, they didn't know how to respond to it, and so I think that kind of inclusive language is so important, whether or not you're talking about children.
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With children, you know your person as opposed to boyfriend or girlfriend, or you're talking about, you know the person that is responsible for them.
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And I'll even admit when you know I'm dealing with having to give stuff to some type of parental unit, I'll admit oh, is mom picking you up today?
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Like that just comes out of my mouth, naturally, you know when we have drama club or anything like that and I'll have to quickly adjust and adapt and change that to, or is someone else?
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Is who's your person picking you up today?
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I'll quickly.
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So it's not just because I think a lot of straight people, from what I have heard they're talking about oh well, changing all of this language is hard.
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Well, it's hard for me too, because I'm used to saying this, this and this, but I'm trying to adapt.
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And even the queer community, we have some difficulty getting up to date and staying with it and sticking with it too.
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And so just a quick, quick push to my straight friends and straight allies it's possible, you can adapt, you can change that language.
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Yeah, absolutely, and I think it goes along the same lines as when we're talking about queer people who believe that affirmation needs to happen immediately upon coming out, like because you're an ally, because you're a queer person, it doesn't mean that you're going to say everything right the first time absolutely like it's a process, because we've all been taught to say things a certain way for centuries.
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Yes, and now we're trying to change that so you know, it's okay to make a mistake.
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The caveat is that you correct and adjust for the future and you're not repeating the same mistake over and over again.
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Absolutely.
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In your role as an educator, either in preschool or in middle school, have you ever had to deal with any kind of anti-queer behavior from either students or parents, or administration?
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Oh yes, Most of it is really passive.
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I find that it's.
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Microaggressions.
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They come up so often.
00:23:04.576 --> 00:23:08.535
I'm like quote unquote microaggressions yeah.
00:23:10.046 --> 00:23:39.636
No, I find they come up more among the students than directed at me, and that's when we have a quick teachers and principals love this word we have a quick redirection, a quick refocus, where we either get back to what we're doing or I'll flat out say okay, well, maybe this is, and I'll try and not combat, but I guess provide a different way of thinking.
00:23:39.636 --> 00:23:47.519
And so that's sort of how I go about handling depending, because I mean, I think any educator would agree with me on this.
00:23:47.519 --> 00:23:50.667
It is a case by case basis and you do have to pick.
00:23:50.667 --> 00:23:54.297
What are you going to get involved in this day?
00:23:54.297 --> 00:23:59.093
And sometimes I don't need to get involved, sometimes it's let's just move on.
00:23:59.093 --> 00:24:00.195
Is this my?
00:24:00.195 --> 00:24:03.431
My favorite question to ask is is this what we're talking about?
00:24:03.431 --> 00:24:08.327
Where did that come from?
00:24:11.755 --> 00:24:16.073
Really, this is what you want, we have so many cool things to talk about, and this is it.
00:24:16.073 --> 00:24:18.094
I guess this is what we're talking about.
00:24:18.114 --> 00:24:23.051
Yeah, I forgot to put that into my lesson plan, sorry guys.
00:24:23.071 --> 00:24:26.348
My bad, I should have planned for that.
00:24:26.348 --> 00:24:27.953
That's funny.
00:24:27.953 --> 00:24:30.574
I know so many teachers do that type of thing too.
00:24:30.704 --> 00:24:33.954
It's like okay guess this is it guys.
00:24:35.026 --> 00:24:35.911
This is it, folks.
00:24:35.911 --> 00:24:37.130
This is what we're working on.
00:24:37.130 --> 00:24:45.269
Or here's this wonderful thing that I prepared for you yeah, we could do the work.
00:24:45.269 --> 00:24:47.369
Yeah, what a thought.
00:24:47.369 --> 00:24:48.073
What a thought.
00:24:48.073 --> 00:25:10.085
I do find that, like in my experience as well, that one microaggressions tend to be the thing, and that people aren't as blatantly going to be like you know that gay in most situations.
00:25:10.085 --> 00:25:18.633
Uh, you know they're not gonna be like coming right for you and I've also had experiences where they do so like um.
00:25:19.576 --> 00:25:29.431
I think it's I think it's a balance and it's different for everyone yeah, I think from when I was in middle and high school, it's a lot less from what I'm seeing.
00:25:29.431 --> 00:25:37.369
Um, so for me, for somebody who dealt with a lot of bullying, um, it's really exciting.
00:25:37.369 --> 00:25:38.932
It's exciting to see more.
00:25:38.932 --> 00:25:45.431
I don't want to say normalcy, but people are adapting, they are more accepting.
00:25:45.431 --> 00:25:48.077
Accepting and you know it is what it is.
00:25:50.926 --> 00:26:00.375
So, thinking about that, what would you like to see the school community do to be more inclusive of 2SLG, ptq, ia plus people?
00:26:02.566 --> 00:26:17.652
My biggest thing is I would love to see admin, educators, school boards sit down with and listen to queer students.
00:26:17.652 --> 00:26:27.147
Yeah, it'd be cool if they would listen to me as well, but like I'm not in this industry for myself, I don't know a single person that is.
00:26:27.147 --> 00:26:30.656
You know, we get all this money, all this fame, all this love, right.
00:26:30.656 --> 00:26:31.787
Who wouldn't want to be a teacher?
00:26:32.709 --> 00:26:38.106
Um, it's the students right, it's the students that I just want them to feel heard.
00:26:38.106 --> 00:26:50.327
Um, I want them to feel seen, and so many of my queer students have told me you know, you're the teacher that I feel seen by.
00:26:50.327 --> 00:27:22.468
You actually listen to me, and I feel like that's a big thing that, especially allies and school boards, administrators, teachers can do is just sit down, listen to them, because even though they are in this age of growing and becoming who they are, they still have important things that they want to say and while it might not be important to you or me, it's important to them and for me as an educator.
00:27:22.468 --> 00:27:25.455
If it's important to them, I'm going to make it important to me.
00:27:26.885 --> 00:27:27.465
Absolutely.
00:27:27.465 --> 00:27:32.976
I always attribute this concept to like in my own edification or education.
00:27:32.976 --> 00:27:41.478
I attribute it to like Brene Brown, but it might actually be like a conversation she had with Tarana Burke who started like the Me Too movement.
00:27:41.478 --> 00:27:48.238
But it's the idea that, like, if you are not heard you are not seen.
00:27:49.627 --> 00:28:08.795
So if you're not even given the opportunity to share your voice, then you are basically invisible and you're in, and that feeling of acceptance or belonging that so many schools are pushing for right now just goes right out the window if they're not willing to listen to the people who feel invisible, exactly.
00:28:08.795 --> 00:28:25.940
And so, um you know, if either of those two lovely women would like to come correct me on who said it, I'm I'm happy to chat I'm gonna encourage but, um, but I love that that.
00:28:26.559 --> 00:28:39.234
it's such a clear message that if you aren't listening to someone, you're not seeing them, you don't, you're not affirming that they exist, you're not recognizing their existence because you're choosing to to specifically omit them.
00:28:39.234 --> 00:28:44.895
And it's interesting I I'm I follow like all of the guests that come on this show.
00:28:44.895 --> 00:28:53.037
I pretty much stay in contact with everybody and kind of assist where I can assist, with amplifying their voices and whatnot.
00:28:53.037 --> 00:28:58.614
And it's so interesting because a couple of months ago I had Willie Carver on.
00:28:58.614 --> 00:28:59.395
Who is?
00:28:59.395 --> 00:29:03.035
He was the 2022 Kentucky Teacher of the Year.
00:29:03.204 --> 00:29:34.454
He's a poet and he has a book called, you know, gay Poems for Red States, and it's because he grew up in the Appalachian Mountains and the stereotype is like redneck country and he posted something today that was like the greatest negative feedback I can get is when academics tell me my poetry isn't real because it doesn't fit a certain standard.
00:29:34.454 --> 00:29:41.049
Yeah, and he's like and I absolutely love the fact that I don't fit that standard that we've been teaching for years.
00:29:41.049 --> 00:30:09.601
That negates the voices of so many people and it's this idea like he's been fighting the academic community because they negate or they do not want to hear from rural communities, and it's as if the rural communities don't exist because they don't have any place to have a voice in academia.
00:30:10.105 --> 00:30:11.606
And so it's so important.
00:30:11.867 --> 00:30:21.361
Regardless of if it's a queer identity that you're talking about or some other aspect of your identity, it's so important that someone sits and listens to you?
00:30:21.481 --> 00:30:23.538
Yes, absolutely, 100%.
00:30:23.538 --> 00:30:24.224
Sits and listens to you?
00:30:24.224 --> 00:30:27.451
Yes, absolutely 100%.
00:30:27.471 --> 00:30:31.087
So your journey with your own sexual orientation like coming out.
00:30:31.087 --> 00:30:32.251
Sorry, it took a while.
00:30:32.251 --> 00:30:35.733
Do you feel confident being yourself in the classroom?
00:30:36.214 --> 00:30:36.375
now.
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