Dec. 17, 2025
086: How Routines, Safety, And Science Turn Students Into Readers with Dr. Steven Underwood
What if the difference between a struggling reader and a confident one is not a love of books, but the routines around them? Dr. Steve Underwood joins us to unpack how predictable, evidence-based instruction changes the math on literacy and identity. From a childhood marked by poverty and round-robin dread to a career leading systems change, Steve shows why consistency, safety, and the science of reading can give every student a fair shot at comprehension and confidence.
We dive into the simple view of reading and then get practical. Steve walks through explicit, systematic phonics with everyday moves teachers can adopt: stable sound-spelling routines, precise finger cues that highlight graphemes, and three targeted blending approaches that keep the process consistent and the thinking focused. We connect those micro-moves to SEL - how choral response boosts participation without shame, how steady sequences reduce anxiety, and how emotional and psychological safety sets the stage for real learning. We also explore audio supports that preserve dignity and allow students to control the pace while building meaning.
We reframe reading as a purpose-driven cycle: preview strategically, monitor understanding as you read, apply insights afterward, and then discuss because learning is social. Finally, we zoom out to the systems level. When a school aligns on routines, students don’t have to relearn directions each year; they build skills.
If you’re ready to trade guesswork for what works, and to pair solid research with human-centered teaching, this conversation will equip you with steps you can use tomorrow. Subscribe, share with a colleague who teaches reading in any content area, and leave a review to tell us which strategy you’ll try first.
EPISODE RESOURCES:
00:00 - Meet Dr. Steve Underwood
02:24 - A Struggling Reader Becomes A Coach
07:25 - Why Routines Reduce Cognitive Load
12:24 - Explicit Phonics And Blending Routines
19:30 - Safety, Choral Response, And Equity
24:20 - Consistency Across Classrooms Vs Freedom
30:05 - Secondary Literacy And Fast Mapping
39:20 - Audio Support, Identity, And Shame
44:20 - Think Like A Reader: Purposeful Reading
WEBVTT
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Welcome to SEL in EDU, the podcast where we explore how educators bring social emotional learning to life by sharing stories, strategies, and sparks of inspiration.
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I'm your host, Dr.
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Krista Lay, owner of Residence Education.
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Thank you for joining us on this SEL journey.
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Dr.
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Steve Underwood is the founder of Veritas Educational Consulting, where he partners with leaders, educators, and organizations to create customized, evidence-based solutions that drive lasting improvement in teaching, learning, and leadership.
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He specializes in leadership coaching, whole system improvement, and the science of reading.
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His career began as a teacher and literacy coach, later leading statewide school improvement efforts in Idaho.
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Steve has held senior leadership roles at NWEA and Education Northwest, guiding large-scale professional learning and consulting initiatives for districts and state education agencies.
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He holds a Doctor of Education with an emphasis in school and system improvement.
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Welcome, Steve to SEL and EDU.
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I'm so excited to dig in today to some of our topics.
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So we were connected through a mutual friend, Lindsay Prendergast, who has been on a couple months ago.
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And one of the things, there were many things that intrigued me about the work that you do around leadership and systems change.
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And one of the things that really caught my attention as a secondary person is your work in the science of reading.
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Here's the reason why.
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My bonus son was a very reluctant reader.
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And it has me thinking about how important reading is to access knowledge, but then also how it impacts our sense of identity as young learners and people.
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I'd love for you to share what led you to the work around the science of reading.
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Oh, that is a good question and a big question.
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So yeah, you you mentioned the idea of identity and people who love reading and so forth.
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And I am one of those conundrums who I don't love to read.
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I'm a literacy expert that doesn't like to read.
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And I don't know.
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I've joked about that a lot over the years, but it's it's really true.
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One of the things that I've come to notice over the years is that a lot of teachers, most teachers, had to be true for their kids that they're teaching as well.
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Um, but they don't have the perspective of what it's like to be a struggling reader.
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I, on the other hand, was a struggling reader when I was in, I don't remember it's probably first grade, I had a horrible stutter.
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I still stutter, but thanks to speech language pathology, like I know how to more or less control it now.
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But I had a really bad stutter.
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I grew up in poverty, grew up with some other kind of trauma and some other things.
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And so for various reasons, I was not a good reader, and I knew it.
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Back in those days, it was really typical for the round robin reading and for uh teachers to put kids in different groups, like the bluebird, the the buzz, you know, like the I was in the buzzards for math.
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Yeah, and like I knew it.
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I knew that I was in the buzzards group for reading, and it would just terrify me every time the it would be my turn to read out loud publicly because it just didn't feel good.
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Anyhow, yeah, uh all that to say is like as I was learning to read, my teachers didn't make English make sense to me.
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In fact, I have teachers that that taught me things like they would explosively say, you know, English doesn't make sense, you just have to memorize it.
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Or looking back, I learned things that were just plain rough.
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The whole I before e except after C, or when it sounds like A is a neighbored way, you know, that's not an English rule.
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And there's a bunch of other things like that.
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Not only did I struggle, but the code didn't make sense, and it was painful.
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It wasn't until I was in college and I was studying Poin A Greek of all things, first century Greek, that I had this professor that he had self-taught himself, like I think it was 10 or 11 different languages, and he could make connections between all of them.
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He was talking about how this English word was related to this Greek word, related to this Russian word, related to this Sanskrit word, etc.
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I'm like, oh, that makes a lot of difference.
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That makes a lot more sense.
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So fast forward when I became a teacher, I the National Reading Panel report in 2000 had just come out, and I was reading that as part of my master's program, and it's like, oh, all this makes sense.
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Like you can actually learn to read effectively and make English make sense.
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And so by the time I became a teacher, it was it was just like I kind of had this, don't care if kids learn to love to read, because I don't love to read, but I do care that they learn to read.
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And so, more than anything, I want to make sure that whatever I do is evidence-based and helps the kids who struggle, like me, so that they have that access to read.
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Or so, anyways, and I took off from there and you know became a coach and consultant and so forth over the years, but that's kind of where it began.
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Long story.
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Oh, that was fascinating, and I reminded me of you know, while I loved reading and felt confident there, I always had anxiety when we did the round robins, so I keep coming ahead to what paragraph I was going to have to read, or when people did popcorn, I'm like, oh good Lord, can we like and I couldn't listen to what and comprehend what was being shared because I was so stressed out that I was going to be called on and make a fool out of myself.
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Exactly, exactly.
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Yeah, and when that happened, when a kid is so focused on like the making a fool of himself, right?
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They can't learn.
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So using evidence-based literacy teaching strategies, those are actually designed in ways to take the cognitive load off of all the processes, etc., so that kids can actually focus on the stuff they're supposed to learn.
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So, can you give me an example of that?
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Because I understood what you said in terms of like cognitive load and those words, but then when you put it all together, I'm like, what does that look like in practice?
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Yeah, so I'll kind of start with an overarching frame and then give some examples.
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So basically, the way I would describe the job of an early reading teacher, especially, and I think this actually applies to secondary disciplinary literacy as well, just in different ways.
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But the job is to teach students how to think like a good reader, as opposed to a lot of teachers approach their weekly lesson because they've got a curricular program that they're supposed to teach, right?
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They approach that as, oh, this week has this story or this expository text.
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I need to make sure that the kid learns everything about this particular text, blah, blah, blah.
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So I'm gonna ask them questions, I'm gonna make sure they read the text three times, et cetera, et cetera.
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And especially in K3, it's less about teaching the kid the content of the specific thing, and it's more about teaching kids how to think like a reader and building the kind of skills that it takes to approach text.
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And so, anyways, what that looks like, you know, you've got the simple view of reading that kind of guides all the people in the literacy space, where the idea is written language is the printed side of the equation.
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You've got language comprehension, which is all of our ability to engage with thinking, reasoning, speaking, all the oral side of the language.
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And you put those two things together, you multiply them, and word recognition times language comprehension equals uh reading comprehension.
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That's how you frame it.
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So on the word recognition side, to like the phonics and all that, there is a lot of evidence around what we call explicit systematic phonics instruction.
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And so because we're teaching more or less from speech to print, we're we will have an oral warm-up where maybe we're focused on the sound today, a thimble, right?
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And so we get the kids listening and have them identify the sound, and then we move into an introduction of that sound.
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So we take a sound spelling card off the wall, the picture is a thimble, the it has the spelling th on it, and then we go through this process when we that's the same.
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It's the process is always the same every single day.
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So it's like class, this is the thimble.
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What's the card?
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Thimble card.
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The sound it makes is what's the sound?
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How's it spelled?
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TH.
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How's it spelled?
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And the kids say th.
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So it's kind of always routinized, if that's a word.
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And that way the kids know what to expect.
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And then when you get into using it in context, there are basically three blending routines.
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So there's what's called the sound by sound blending routine, a continuous whole word blending routine, and then a spelling focus blending routine.
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And so, depending on what you're trying to accomplish with the kids, you use that specific routine with, say, 20 words in that lesson, and the routine is always exactly the same.
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And you use finger cues to point out exactly what the kids need to be doing.
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You get into a problem if today your routine looks one way, tomorrow your routine looks different, the next day it looks a third way, et cetera, et cetera.
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Because for kids who struggle, if they're trying to spend their mental effort trying to figure out what your directions are and following you, then that's where your cognitive load goes.
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Your cognitive load goes to directions, not content of learning.
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Whereas if you use these scientifically based reading research practices, you're doing the same thing over.
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So the process stays the same.
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Kids can focus on what they need to learn.
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Thank you for that.
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And there's a couple pieces that I'm pulling out and starting to have some aha connections to.
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We often in SEL talk about routinization and having those routines because that helps students feel emotionally and physically safe.
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They're not wondering what's going to happen next.
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Because there's so many other aspects of their lives where maybe things aren't in a routine they can count on.
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And I also like that you talked about views that help support that.
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So it's more than one approach to that particular routine.
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I was just talking with a school on Monday about emotional safety and psychological safety and how sometimes they're used interchangeably, but really emotional safety is feeling like you're seen and you're heard and you're valued.
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And when that happens, you can engage in psychological safety, which is a willingness to make a mistake.
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Yeah.
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And know that you're not going to be made fun of or put down, and that it's a learning opportunity.
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So what you said involved a lot of class um vocalization.
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And I cut myself back in even if I wasn't sure, I could hear what other people were saying around me, and it wasn't a spotlight on me.
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Yes.
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So there that there's a couple of things that you just said that are direct connections.
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So one is that everybody's responding.
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So part of that is the safety side of it.
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Like if you don't know, at least you're hearing it, and so it's being reinforced.
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But also there's part of it that back to the round robin or popcorn examples.
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If we if you use a popcorn or a round robin example, then each individual child is getting maybe 30 seconds of response time.
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If you use a process where you've got choral responses, then every single child is responding multiple times in every single lesson.
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And so it's that response part of it that reinforces learning too.
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So there's that part that kind of helps.
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So you're talking about routinization and cues.
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And so just by example, I have a couple old YouTube videos that I did to teach people how to do these blending routines.
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And I am a big stickler on all the tiny little bits and pieces about the cues.
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So for example, if you do the word, if you're teaching kids to blend the word flash, then that the word flash has what is it, five phonemes?
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No, four phonemes.
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It's got four phonemes, uh, but five letters.
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And so when you are pointing the to the cues, you would point to the F, point to the L, point to the A, the A, then use two fingers to point to the SH because that is one grapheme, and you want the kid to visualize that it's one thing.
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And so then even like how you swoop and the sequence in which you do it, you know, if you're doing a continuous word blend where you write the whole word up, you're gonna just point to each of those graphemes one at a time and then blend through the whole word.
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But if you're doing a sound by sound blending routine, you would do F, say say in uh write and then pronounce the sound, write and pronounce the L, write and pronounce the A.
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But then you'd blend through the A because the sound by sound routine is intentionally working on the individual phoning pieces, and vowels are the hardest things for kids to learn.
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So you do that by you reinforce the vowel, and then you finish the word, and then you blend through the whole word again, and then you say it quickly at a normal speed.
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And so there's all sorts of just little bitty things that we teach teachers to do these things again because of the individual student, and then ideally, you mentioned my leadership and school improvement work.
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Ideally, you teach every teacher in the building to do it the exact same way, and a lot of times you'll hear teachers say, Oh, but that takes my freedom, my academic freedom, right?
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Yeah, and I say that I understand that, but does the child in your class, will that child in your class ever go to somebody else's class?
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Will that child ever go to another grade level?
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And if so, do they need to relearn all these things because now they've got a different adult interacting with them?
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So if you if you really want to talk about fairness to the kid, we're talking about doing it for their sake, not because we want to control anybody.
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We want to just help the kids learn.
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There's a couple pieces that really have resonated with me.
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One is that you mentioned before evidence-based.
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And our students do deserve routine and consistency across grade levels and across teachers.
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As one of two 11th grade American US history teachers, we had the same symbol of us, but we taught it two completely different ways.
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And that was fun in my mind.
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But then after a while, I'm like, what if they both go on to AP US history?
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What if they both go on to from each class?
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We did not do right by them because I like talking about Vietnam and he liked talking about the music group, The Beatles.
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So we were both doing what we wanted and not putting students first.
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The other piece that has me thinking on what you said is how this does affect us in secondary or outside of ELA contents, working with what we called tier three vocabulary, so vocab that was specific to history or social studies.
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And let's say I had a student who came in who was beginning to learn English as a second language or was an English language developer.
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How could I better support them by having some of this foundational knowledge?
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Yeah.
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I don't need to do everything because I'm not trained in that, but how could I provide as much support as possible for students at the secondary levels as well?
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Yeah, that's a great question.
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Back to that simple view of reading that I was talking about that you've got word recognition and language comprehension, that the product of those two things equals your ability to have good reading comprehension.
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By the time kids get into secondary teachers are not well prepared to deal with word recognition, phonics, all that kind of stuff.
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However, there are aspects of that side of the equation that you can do.
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So, like when it comes to teaching vocabulary, the more that you reinforce the roots of words, Germanic roots, Latin roots, Greek roots, and so forth, the more kids understand that, then that that exponentially expands their vocabulary.
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So reinforcing that, giving them opportunity to engage with those types of root words and so forth supports their vocabulary.
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The other thing that I would say that's a really easy strategy for uh any teacher is related to specifically vocabulary, like you're talking about with tier three words.
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I've seen in a lot of classrooms people belabor vocabulary, get it out the worksheet, write the word, write it in a friendly definition, draw a picture, put it in a paragraph.
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And that is not necessarily the most productive way to do vocabulary, and it's just it takes so long.
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And so by the time you're done, if you write the word, put in write the definition, write a sentence, write a paragraph, you've said it what four times maybe.
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Four times is not enough to teach you that word.
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So there's actually a really easy strategy called fast mapping that is basically Anita Archer was the researcher who made this really popular.
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But essentially what it does is it's like, okay, I need to very quickly make this word part of the this child's vocabulary, or my whole class's vocabulary.
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And so it goes something like you you put it up on the screen and say, okay, class, the word is um what was the example I saw her doing most recently?
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Oh I don't know.
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Give me a good word, but then I can just make up.
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So I was talking about Vietnam, and the word that comes up in my head during that conflict was vietnamization.
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Vietnamization.
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Okay.
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All right.
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So yeah, Vietnamization.
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So the word is vietnamity.
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What's the word?
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And you have everybody say the word, right?
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So again, response.
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What's the word?
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Vietnamization.
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Vietnamization is, and then I put up a definition on the board, and then I'd have to You define it because I don't know what it is, but it has something to do with the people of Vietnam and etc.
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etc.
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Vietnam, and then I'd use it in an example.
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Vietnamization is what happens when, and then I say uh right, and then I'd have the class, I'd give a bunch of examples and non-examples, like class, such and such and such happened.
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Is that vietnamization?
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The whole class, yes.
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Do it again, whole class, no, okay.
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And then I might say, okay, such and such and such happened, and that is an example of, and the class would say vietnamized, right?
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So you're doing these processes where the kids are using the word multiple times over and over again, and then you end with the process of saying, okay, I want you to talk to a neighbor, and I want you to begin with this sentence frame, and you'd have a sentence frame prepared, and use the word vietnamization in your sentence, and then the class, they pair up, say it, et cetera.
00:20:59.920 --> 00:21:06.319
So, Max, you're spending just a couple minutes on this idea, and that's why it's called fast map.
00:21:06.400 --> 00:21:18.720
You're very quickly mapping the vocabulary term in the students learning in their mind so that they're able to then engage with it in whatever you read and work on in that lesson.
00:21:19.920 --> 00:21:35.039
I really like this idea of the examples and non-examples, and that was honestly something as a secondary person, I did not learn until my elementary friends, once I started teaching, told me you need to give non-examples to make it even more clear.
00:21:35.279 --> 00:21:39.119
But it had never even been a thought in my mind before.
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And I can see how it helps with some differentiation around a definition.
00:21:45.119 --> 00:21:51.279
And by the way, I had to look up Vietnamization because it's been a while since I thought about.
00:21:51.519 --> 00:22:01.279
So it's the policy of the Nixon administration where we were trying to end US involvement and transfer responsibility of fighting the war back to the Vietnamese.
00:22:01.440 --> 00:22:04.400
So it was us trying to extract ourselves.
00:22:04.559 --> 00:22:17.680
Um, but I knew it was going to be on my mind, and so I can see that then giving examples of is this an example of Vietnamization or not, and then give you a chance to make sense of it.
00:22:18.079 --> 00:22:18.720
Yeah.
00:22:19.599 --> 00:22:27.519
I also think I taught 10th grade world history, and we read Animal Farm when we were talking about the revolution.
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And I fully know as you were talking, I'm like, oh, I want to go back and apologize.
00:22:32.319 --> 00:22:39.119
But I used to have the students read out loud and they only had to do a sentence but could go up to a paragraph.
00:22:39.279 --> 00:22:42.400
But they would call on each other, and I wish I could take that back.
00:22:43.279 --> 00:22:49.759
But then as the years went on, I only asked people who wanted to read out loud, or I would read.
00:22:49.920 --> 00:22:57.599
And I've learned the value through my bonus son of listening to the audio while seeing the words.
00:22:57.839 --> 00:22:58.400
Yes.
00:22:58.640 --> 00:23:06.240
And he loved the audio because he could slow it down or speed it up as he needed it to follow and comprehend.
00:23:06.559 --> 00:23:08.160
Yes, I would agree with that.
00:23:08.240 --> 00:23:14.880
I think that's partly why audiobooks have taken off so much just in general, is because it helps.
00:23:15.200 --> 00:23:20.319
So it helps tremendously, especially if your identity is a slow you're a slow reader, right?
00:23:20.559 --> 00:23:22.480
Then it helps to have that backup.
00:23:22.640 --> 00:23:24.079
And I don't know.
00:23:24.480 --> 00:23:27.279
A lot of people feel shame around those types of things too.
00:23:27.359 --> 00:23:29.839
And I'd say, no, it's just do whatever you need.
00:23:30.079 --> 00:23:36.240
Again, the end of the day isn't whether or not you can read the word hyperalgostronism.
00:23:37.759 --> 00:23:38.160
What?
00:23:38.960 --> 00:23:46.240
Yeah, that is a condition I learned about this year related to my health, which was crazy.
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I had this weird cause for high blood pressure that was caused by a weird growth on an adrenal gland.
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And it was like, once that was removed, my high blood pressure went away.
00:23:57.920 --> 00:24:02.480
But nobody knew what hyperaldosterinism was until I was there.
00:24:02.559 --> 00:24:06.000
And all the medical professionals were like, We have never seen this before.
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We're so excited.
00:24:07.359 --> 00:24:09.119
I'm like, Yay for you.
00:24:10.160 --> 00:24:12.319
And not excited, but good job.
00:24:13.200 --> 00:24:13.519
Yeah.
00:24:13.680 --> 00:24:16.720
So, anyways, fun word, uh, very interesting.
00:24:16.960 --> 00:24:26.880
Anyhow, so yeah, the point is not, especially as adults, the point is not whether or not you can read that word, it's we are all engaging with text for various purposes.
00:24:27.119 --> 00:24:29.519
And can we get the purpose out of that text?
00:24:29.680 --> 00:24:38.319
And that thing is another kind of soapbox that I get on is people ought to think like a good reader involves understanding that whole side of things.
00:24:38.400 --> 00:24:40.240
So if you want to talk about that, we can talk about that too.
00:24:40.480 --> 00:24:41.119
Oh, I do.
00:24:41.359 --> 00:24:55.680
Please keep moving forward because I'm also having flashes of different organizations I've worked with where the curriculum side of the hallway doesn't talk to the human resources side.
00:24:55.839 --> 00:25:03.200
And so they're not seeing that there's a partnership and there's this, there might be a push for literacy, which is incredibly important.
00:25:03.680 --> 00:25:06.720
And I think the SEL pieces go with it.
00:25:07.599 --> 00:25:11.200
Your sense of identity and your strengths and what you bring to the table.
00:25:11.440 --> 00:25:18.240
So, one other quick thing, and I hope this doesn't derail you, but I think about my husband who often asks me, What does this word mean?
00:25:18.400 --> 00:25:19.200
What does that word mean?
00:25:19.279 --> 00:25:28.000
And I'm like, oh my gosh, I got slammed with vocabulary in high school, ad nauseum, and I know I just had to memorize, right?
00:25:28.240 --> 00:25:31.759
And yeah, but he speaks many languages.
00:25:31.839 --> 00:25:39.359
He grew up speaking English and Italian, he learned Spanish on his own fluently, he is learning Portuguese.
00:25:39.680 --> 00:25:50.240
So it's interesting that he is seeing some of those codes that your professor did, even not having that extensive vocabulary language that I had drilled into me.
00:25:50.400 --> 00:25:57.359
And actually, I'd rather speak many languages to communicate with lots of people than know big words.
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