Strategies for Enhancing Memory & Critical Thinking - E113

Rachel: 0:39

In this episode, we are continuing our learning journey all about thinking memory, and why students don't like school.

Katie: 0:47

We Are going to be talking about chapter two and chapter three of Why Don't Students Like School, and we will focus on the importance of background knowledge and how we can present it in such a way that students will.

Rachel: 0:59

Let's get started. This week Katie and I are back in talking about the next couple of chapters, and why don't students like school?

Katie: 1:15

Yeah, so it's we wanted to kind of put together chapters two and three because chapter two is pretty simple and it kind of goes really quickly. Whereas chapter three gives us a lot more meat and potatoes, so to speak. That incorporates the whole theme of chapter two. So let's just get going with it.

Rachel: 1:30

Just to to recap if you, if you missed the first episode and do wanna go back and listen to that. We did do a whole podcast episode on chapter. and that's called How to Get Students Thinking. That's episode one 10 and we'll link that in the show notes for you. And yeah, so as I was kind of reading chapter two, I went, wait a second. Isn't this chapter one

Katie: 1:52

Yes, it is very connected to chapter one. Well, I think they're all connected, but that being said it didn't feel like there was. as much to it as there was in chapter one, and so it felt very short.

Rachel: 2:06

It did feel pretty short and a lot of the, the, the kind of key concepts we talked about on that previous episode as well. So really getting into the guiding principle for chapter. it is. It says that thinking skills depend on factual knowledge, and so we, we did talk a lot about that in our last episode because you need to have that factual knowledge in order to be able to do the thinking.

Katie: 2:30

and I think that part of the reason why he included this is because sometimes we get so caught up in like, let's teach critical thinking. Let's do all of these innovative practices. But it's important to kind of take a moment and pause and say, wait a second, do they have the background knowledge to actually be able to do these things? we need to provide that knowledge before they can engage with that knowledge in, in a different way.

Rachel: 2:54

what I really liked about this chapter is, that he pointed out that thinking is so intertwined with factual knowledge. Like you can't teach one without the other, and you can't silo one without the other. They need to both be developed in parallel, and I think. one of those kind of key things as, as you're going through, and it, it can't be something where you're just providing the information, like students can Google it or they're getting it off the whiteboard and able to, in order to be able to do that thinking task, like both things need to be developed and need to be, developed in parallel.

Katie: 3:30

Yeah, and just because they can Google it doesn't mean they're going to be able to process and interact with it and think about that knowledge in order to remember it and be able to recall it later. So he is, I think, making us take a chapter to focus on the fact that we need to actually teach knowledge in order to be able to do the rest of it. And so we can't really think about things unless we have things to think about.

Rachel: 3:53

what I did really appreciate about this chapter is there was a really good discussion around working memory and. What you can keep in your working memory and how limited that capacity is, but in order to expand your working memory, not really expand it per se, but try to expand it by chunking material and chunking factual knowledge and ideas and things like that. So if you have the chunking there, then there is actually more room in your working memory, which makes it easier to then. the thinking task itself.

Katie: 4:27

I also appreciated he spent a whole bunch of time talking about knowledge gaps and how if students, you know, in and around that grade three age, where if they start to fall behind in reading comprehension skills, et cetera, and everybody forges ahead throughout the grades, that gap in knowledge. Continues to grow steadily. So those who have knowledge continue to acquire knowledge really quickly. Those who don't are now at a deficit and, and that gap will continue to grow unless we actually focus on that gap in helping students build that back up. And I think that's important because once they get into like the grade 6, 7, 8, 9, et cetera, if they don't. That same amount of knowledge or, or more to kind of work with when we're teaching these higher level skills, it's much more difficult for our students.

Rachel: 5:15

Now, there was one like really neat example in this chapter that I was like, yes, yes. As he, as he was talking about it. So he was talking about scientists and, and uh, specifically this sort of section was about cognitive skills and, and building those and using memory in a lot of your problem solving. Um, And what he, he sort of. Got to sing about scientists is that when they're doing research, they generally look for those unexpected results and focusing on those un unexpected results. Like I pulled this quote out here. It says, but for results to be unexpected, you must have an expectation. An expectation about the outcome would be based on your knowledge of the field. So you can't have students thinking like scientists without that background knowledge because it's so true that you, you can't make those predictions or have those expectations of what you're going to see without that knowledge.

Katie: 6:10

I think that makes a lot of sense and I don't think I can add anything of value here.

Rachel: 6:15

Yeah, it was just such a fun example as I came across it. I'm like, yes, like this is what I've been saying to so many of my colleagues over the years, and. all of it is, right? As, a researcher in the, in the past, like doing research, that's what I looked for was always those un unexpected results. Like you can't publish something. If it's something that's just expected it won't get accepted in a journal. But like, if you get something unexpected, then it tells you that your theory is not quite right, and then that's where you do that deeper dive. the thinking behind it and, and trying to figure things out. And uh, so I, I thought that was just, it was a really impactful example for me as I was reading through this chapter itself.

Katie: 6:58

and with that in mind, I think that's actually a good segue into chapter three's guiding principle and what they were talking about. So I want to list the name of the chapter because I thought it was kind of witty and makes a lot of sense. So chapter three is actually called, why do students Remember Everything that's on television? And Forget everything I. So I actually kind of like that because it's true. Like even my own kids, I'm like, come on now. You remember the TV show, but you don't remember me asking you to do all of these chores or whatever it's, you had to get done. But I digress. So the guiding principle is memory is the residue of thought. I love that

Rachel: 7:34

And I love the whole premise of this chapter because I don't know about you, Katie, but I have so much random stuff in my memory that he had this one visual listed out of all like the random things that he knows that he's never going to use and then all these things that he always has to look up and there. And I have so many of those too. For me, a lot of music lyrics are stuck in my head and. There'll be songs from 20 years ago, and they come on the radio, and I, I know all the lyrics, and my husband just kind of looks at me weird, right? because I'm, I'm singing and well, we won't go there. But then there are certain things that I teach every single year that I end up going, okay, I need to refresh my memory on how to do this because I just, it, it doesn't stick.

Katie: 8:21

Similarly, and it's funny that you mentioned song lyrics because my husband and I are even with our kids, we'll have a conversation and then as soon as there's a line that's like word for word from a song, we start to break out into song. And my kids are like, what is wrong with you? And I'm like, don't worry about it But it's true. Like how do we have the capacity to store all of that? Like the melody, the lyrics, how can we store all of that? But when I want to remember something, no. It's gone.

Rachel: 8:48

Even silly things like the, the jingles from, from old commercials, like the Kit Cat one. I'm not gonna sing it, but uh, just even mentioning that might trigger if you, if you're old enough and you're listening to us, it might trigger that jingle in your head and, and, help you to remember exactly what that is. And so this whole chapter is about why that happens and what's going on in our brains and our memories in order to be able to bring about that that learning.

Katie: 9:17

And, and it's also how we approach different kind of situations or, or stimuli and things that are going on around um, and how we think about those things, which I thought was so, I mean, it's so logical, but I never really thought of that before. Because it, it really is how you interact with what you're learning that determines how you remember that learning.

Rachel: 9:38

So going back to the guiding principle then for this chapter, it's memory is the residue of thought. So it's what are you actually thinking about is what is going to stick in your memory. And sometimes that's not what you have designed, an assignment or something that your students are working on to be.

Katie: 9:58

No, and I think that's the important reminder. So he opens it up with an example of like a teacher walking down a hallway and a student being in the hallway and they're angry at something by their locker, and they're saying things and whatever, and talking about how, depending on what you, you as that person, focus on with regards to that student. determine how you remember. So maybe it's something you hear, maybe you've picked up a word or something. Maybe it's what you saw, like how they were interacting with that locker or also the feeling. So what feeling did it elicit? Were you worried about that student? And then how you're gonna recall that later. I think that kind of helped me figure out how my mind kind of works, because I can think of that happening so many times and I may have heard what they said, but I was more focused on body language. and that's how I recall that kind of situation. And so it's, it, it's fascinating.

Rachel: 10:47

Yeah, I've, I have lots of examples like that too. I was doing uh, teacher in charge, which is when all of our administrators are out of, out of the school for a few hours, they ask for some of us to step into that role. Be in charge of the school while they're gone. And I was doing that with another colleague. And it was just interesting, even as we were kind of doing some hall supervision and stuff, the things that she was noticing versus the things that I was noticing. So she kept pointing out one student in particular with a shiny black jacket, and I'm like, I, didn't even see that. Right. So it's, it's really interesting and. It is one thing to kind of pay attention to and, and see what you notice and what you're maybe not noticing.

Katie: 11:32

and then from there, like when we're giving lessons, what do we want our students to notice and what do we want them to think about? which goes back to that whole, in chapter one, he talks about how we have to be more careful and the questions we're asking. And I think that brings us back to that because we need to be purposeful in what our goals are and how we want students to think about the knowledge that we're providing and, and the meaning we want them to take from it.

Rachel: 11:59

It's also being careful about what kind of hooks you use and examples that you use as you're trying to, to teach a specific concept. Because if. Something that is, sure, it could be a big bang, right? Like chemical reaction, big bang. But the students might be focusing their thinking on that reaction itself and not necessarily the content or the concept that comes along with it. And so when they've done that lesson, they might remember the Big Bang, but they don't remember anything else that goes along with it.

Katie: 12:33

And so we have to make sure we have whatever knowledge we're trying to get them to learn in their working memory. For a decent amount of time. So they have to actually be mulling it over and thinking about it and processing it if we want that to go into long-term memory. Um, And how they think about it determines how it's stored in that memory. So there's lots of like different pieces that we have to kind of keep in mind. And then he dives into like what good teachers or effective teachers have in terms of characteristics and, I liked this part, I think probably the most, and I think it's because of my style as a teacher, and maybe that's why I'm partially effective. I don't, I, I, you know what I mean?

Rachel: 13:13

I do know what you mean. So as, as he kind of chats about what a good teacher is, essentially what he defines it or breaks it down to is, That the teacher is nice in, in terms of being able to make good connections with with the students, and then also being well organized and well organized in a way that, it's interesting to learn. It's easy to understand, and, and I did like this too, and I did sort of see students who have said, oh, I like this teacher versus, I don't like that teacher like you, you, once you kind of think about that and then make the connection back to these characteristics, I do see a lot of parallels between the two.

Katie: 13:55

And so part of this whole idea of the connection with teachers, he, he gives a few examples. So like, it could be a sense of humor, like maybe they insert jokes and that is a way that they engage with their students. It could be somebody who has a lot of empathy and caring and is always trying to make sure students are okay, which is, I think, where I fall in a lot. I think I'm like that empathetic teacher where like, I always try to make sure they're ready to learn and, and things aren't bothering them and how I can support my students and, and so I kind of see myself in that. But then also the other one was a storyteller. Somebody who can actually tell a story effectively and really get students engaged and interested and the last one is somebody who's more of like a show person, somebody who's like flashy and can get people engaged while also engaging with the content itself.

Rachel: 14:43

I, I sort of see myself as a mix of the first couple, so I do crack a lot of, I don't know, maybe corny, corny jokes in my classroom. but they're fun. Right. And uh, I do joke a lot around a lot with my students, but then I also come from a place of empathy and caring as well. So kind of like a little bit of a mashup between the

Katie: 15:04

I could see that. That makes sense to me. Knowing you as a person, I could very much see that.

Rachel: 15:08

I'm definitely not a storyteller though. And so I actually really appreciated the remainder of the chapter because he did talk a lot about stories and why storytelling is so important and uh, gave some frameworks as well on how to kind of set up stories that made me think quite.

Katie: 15:28

Yes. And so he, he talks about how stories in general really capture your, your attention and those four kind of main points of it. So really quickly we'll go into that a little bit. So it's the four C. So. causality and how students need to see that connection in, in the story, so to speak, the conflict. So obstacles, complications, so more problems that they have to solve along the way as well as character. So there has to be some action in some sort of movement in that story based on that character. And so then he kind of breaks it down and explains how these work in a story and interact with one another. And then he also gives examples of how, it doesn't have to be a real story, but lessons. Can be structured with these four Cs in mind and he gives examples for different classrooms. And I think that's awesome because sometimes I can see it easily for one classroom, but not as much for others. And so I really appreciated the time and effort he put in to make sure teachers can see this in their program area. Yeah.

Rachel: 16:30

and he, he really sort of stressed as well as building up the, that clarification or the context, the background building to the question and why it matters in a lesson before you actually get into like resolving that conflict or resolving that, thing instead. I did really like that. It was interesting to, to look at this four C structure, cuz I don't know, maybe. Maybe it's just my science brain coming from it, but I don't ever really think of structuring any kind of lesson that way.

Katie: 17:04

Yeah. I hadn't until I was like, well, I see that. Our minds are surrounded like our, our brains. We as humans are surrounded by stories, whether it be stories, we read stories, we hear movies and TV shows, and, and so we, we know that structure. We know how stories occur and how they're told. And so if we can structure a lesson in that same way, it's, it's something we already. It's something that's already in our memories, and so we seek out that structure and it's easier to make sense and place things and it's so kind of like, Ugh, that makes so much sense. But then at the same time, how do we do that in a science classroom and a math classroom, and all of these other things,

Rachel: 17:48

So one resource I want, I wanna mention here, and I have not read this book yet, but I think this is a, a worthwhile path going down, especially if you're really interested in, in getting into storytelling and stuff. It's called Story Worthy by Matthew Dicks and the subtitle is Engage, teach, persuade, and Change Your Life through the Power of Story. and I actually got that recommendation because our director of education in our school board was reading it at one time last year when, when we had a meeting with him. So, you know, it's, it's kind of being on my list and, and sort of in there, in the background, but I haven't quite gotten around to reading it yet. But after I, I read this chapter here, it's, it's now sort of, I think it's coming up in the list,

Katie: 18:33

I love how when you're reading one book or one resources or one of our resources where you can actually think of others that go hand in hand quite nicely and I think it's a way of helping to solidify and make us think about that information as well to help us remember.

Rachel: 18:48

Now he, he gave a great science example, so I, I did appreciate that as well. when you talk about atomic theory and, and how the structure of the atom and its history coming forward, I think history is a natural kind of place to do storytelling because it is based on stories of the past

Katie: 19:08

I did love how we flipped that perspective. So in some cases, maybe we don't do our own nation's perspective. Maybe it makes more sense to take on the perspective of. Somebody else and, and so I actually like that example and how he flipped that on its head to say, this will make more sense for students. So make sure you look at it from multiple angles.

Rachel: 19:27

Yeah. So it's, it's uh, looking at the characters of your story and then looking at the conflict that Sarah, and thinking about which way you can approach it through your story. So it might not just be this linear progression through atomic models, but what was the conflict there? Who were the, the players? And maybe the focus is even on the players that aren't normally mentioned, like aren't normally highlight. In the textbooks and stuff like that. Like maybe you wanna bring that perspective of that story from their lens instead. So it, it's just, it's given me a lot of food for thought about different ways to approach some of my, my topics that I teach.

Katie: 20:09

And, and even as a history teacher, it's given me that perspective and I'm about to start teaching history. So it's uh, I'm starting to think like, that is really logical and I need to look at how I teach some of these different things and can I flip it to help make more connections and to create this story.

Rachel: 20:27

Now, stories are great for anything that has meaning. but he also talked about a little bit at the end of the, the chapter about, well, what if you're trying to teach something that doesn't really have meaning, but you just need to know it. So maybe it's just certain voca words you need to memorize, or different facts that you need to memorize that are, are, are not really story worthy essentially. So he does, he does talk a lot about mnemonics and using different sort of memorization tools in order to be able to memorize those pieces of of information. So things like acronyms, using music, using rhythms, they're all really good cues for your brain to then be able to access that information.

Katie: 21:15

And he gives pros and cons for a few of them. which I was kind of thinking along the way. I was, I was reading about them, so it's kind of nice to see. Okay. So I'm not so far off as to why that doesn't work for me, but no, I like, I like how he's really broken this up and, and recognizes that rote memorization is something that, you know, it needs to happen sometimes, and that's okay. We're not saying that everything has to be a story. We, we are also recognizing. Memorization is helpful too and needs to be done.

Rachel: 21:43

Definitely I, I have a lot of mnemonics I used in high school, university myself that. I, I still remember them because they have stuck with me for, for so long. And uh, I, I think kind of the key sort of point from this chapter is that mnemonics are not bad and they're okay to use and use them if you need to use them with your students to help them memorize so,

Katie: 22:09

Yep. Do you remember like Dr. Mrs. Vander tramp in French and

Rachel: 22:13

Oh, that's,

Katie: 22:14

in math?

Rachel: 22:15

oh, so yeah. Sokoto, I think, I think that sort of example probably speaks to, to a lot of us.

Katie: 22:22

Yeah,

Rachel: 22:23

There, there's a bunch of

Katie: 22:24

I know. It's so much fun. So they work. Now, could I like the Sokoto? I remember for sure. Do I remember all of my etro verbs in pae? I don't know.

Rachel: 22:35

in chemistry, there's Nick the Camel Ada clam supper in Phoenix, and that helps you memorize all of the polyatomic ions, at least all of the common ones, and their number of oxygens and charges and stuff like that. So it's a fun one too. There's uh, some great classroom implications. We don't, we don't have a lot of time to chat about them, but let's chat about a few. I think one of the big ones is just really taking a critical lens to your lesson and what you are teaching or what you were assigning and making sure that the. Of the thinking is what you want it to be on and not on something else that's flashy. So even I am thinking about some past assignments I've done and I'm like did it, did it really focus on what I wanted it to do? Podcasting, for example, doing podcasting with students is the focus on the podcasting itself and what they learned about that, or what they learned about the content.

Katie: 23:32

Yeah. And, and there's room for both. Like when I do a lot of my introductory and diagnostics, like I'll get my students used to the tools that I know we're going to be using because of the fact that I don't want them learning and playing around with the tools when it's time for real applications of them. So, I mean, there's time and a place, right? And so it's just making sure that we're not removing. The thinking part and the actual purpose of our lessons.

Rachel: 23:56

another one that really stuck with me is use discovery learning with care. And so you wanna, you wanna be careful, right? Because if you are doing discovery learning, and that happens a lot in math and science, and. If students are discovering something but it's incorrect, then that is going to be what they remember, and then that then becomes harder to get rid of and replace with the correct piece of information after the fact.

Katie: 24:25

Um, And then one that kind of stuck out to me was Trior organizing a lesson plan around the conflict, because that's the interesting part for a lot of our students, is kind of presenting that conflict or that problem and then giving them. That natural kind of engagement and thinking to help solve that problem?

Rachel: 24:40

And the conflict doesn't need to be conflict per se, right? It, it just needs to be something where you present a scenario and. they need to be able to solve the scenario with is what is the contents that you're going to be

Katie: 24:55

Yeah. It's really the question that you're trying to answer in your lesson. and so that's where we're really taking that time to think about what is the question, and am I getting that right? and meaning.

Rachel: 25:04

And then uh, also just really thinking carefully about those attention grabbers, so, like you said, the the story and the conflict is where the focus wants to be. If you want to use some sort of attention grabber, those are the best kind of attention grabbers to use, and you want it to then focus on getting to understanding that question that you're trying to address in the lesson.

Katie: 25:28

It was a very exciting couple of chapters, so lots of learning and lots of neat things to consider.

Rachel: 25:34

Yeah. Yeah. I don't, I don't know if I'm gonna look at storytelling the, the same way again.

Katie: 25:39

I know. I think that was the point.

Rachel: 25:40

Okay. So I think that's a really great place for us to wrap up our conversation here today. Again, we'll uh, we'll revisit later chapters in the book, in future episodes, so stay tuned for that. But for now if you want to access any of the resources or links we talked about here today they'll be in our show notes@edyougals.com slash one 13. That's EDU G A L s.com/one 13.

Katie: 26:08

And if you like what you heard today, then feel free to share it with a colleague or a friend. And don't forget to subscribe on your favorite podcast app so that you don't miss out on any future content.

Rachel: 26:18

And as always, we'd love to hear from you, especially do you use storytelling in your classroom? I'm, I'm really curious how many out there actually uh, actually think about this as a structure for their lessons. So, If you have something to share with us, you can go onto our flip edu gals.com/flipgrid and leave us a video message there. Or you can go onto our website@edugals.com and leave us a written response,

Katie: 26:43

Thanks for listening and see you next week.