Modifications to Mastery Learning - E112

Rachel: 0:39

In this episode, we are talking all about change.

Katie: 0:43

Yes. We are at our semester turnaround and we're gonna be talking about what we liked about the semester and the changes we want to make to help improve it or save our sanity.

Rachel: 0:53

Let's get started. This week Katie and I are talking a little bit about changes that we are looking forward to since this time of year is when we switch over to a new semester, so we're getting a new set of students. And so I always love this time of year because it gives me that chance for a fresh start.

Katie: 1:20

I do love the fresh start. I almost, you know, we were talking about this at school, how it would almost be nice if we could have the fresh start in January. So start a month early, fresh start, new course, new students January versus like trying to get students to remember what we were doing prior to the break, et cetera.

Rachel: 1:38

I think for a lot of folks who start back to school in August, like. Early August, or even end of July, which makes me s shutter. They probably have a fresh start in January. So this episode might be a little bit late for you, but for those of us, especially in Ontario or that are kind of a little bit of a later start this is just a really great time for us to reflect into, think about what sort of changes we wanna wanna do moving forward. And I think a lot of the changes that we have been talking about with each other and, and with our colleagues is really focused around mastery based learning.

Katie: 2:15

Yeah. We've, we've done a lot of even changes in what we've done starting in September. So it's been a lot of growing pains and a lot of like, Catching our breath and treading water and trying to figure out what works and what doesn't and, you know, what we kind of wanna abandon. So I, I think this is a great conversation to have as we kind of start to transition into a new semester and a new fresh start where we can, you know, make some of those changes and save some sanity.

Rachel: 2:41

So I think I've hinted at a bunch of changes that I've talked over about over the past few episodes. So let's start with you, Katie. So what, what changes are you thinking about?

Katie: 2:51

Yes, so we started with the goal of creating all of these instructional videos for our all five levels based on the skills, et cetera. It was a very lofty goal. And we missed the Mark A lot of our PD time got cut last year, and so the development of the resources it, we just didn't have the time. We didn't have the ability to actually get it all done, so then we were like trying to catch up and get it and, and then eventually we were like My head has exploded. We're tired, we're in all sorts of directions, so we are going to stress less about videos and more on kind of doing it differently. So the great thing about a language is that you can still differentiate by outcome. I, I simplify my language, but in small groups I have varied vocabulary based on what they need and, and what they're developing. And so we're kind of just going to use the same prompts or the same images, videos, et cetera, and then differentiate from there, if that makes sense.

Rachel: 3:53

That does make sense and, and we'll probably take a lot of the stress off of you for creating all the videos for all the levels and give you that opportunity to build up your resources. So I, I do like that. I have hinted at this a few times over the, the winter break. I read a book by Thomas Guskey and it's implementing mastery based learning. And kind of been waiting to talk about this a little bit more, but what I really, really appreciated about that book was. that it's, it's not talking about the model in terms of like exactly what the Modern Classrooms project framework is. I love their framework, but it took a step backwards in terms of just looking at the mastery based learning part of it. So with modern classrooms, it's blended instruction, self-pacing structures, and mastery based learning. But this is just looking at one of those pillars. And so I, I did that deep dive in. and basically going back to a lot of the research and a lot of the premise of what mastery based learning is, he sort of defines it as you have this period of initial instruction and what that initial instruction looked like, looked. Can look like, can, can look like anything. So it could be chalk and talk. Like if that's what you do, that's what you do. Right. It could be the videos, like what we talk about and what modern classrooms, you know, really sort of stresses with their model. It could be small group activities. It like, it could be anything. Right? It's that initial instruction. and then you give an assessment immediately after that initial instruction. So whether it's on a group of lessons or maybe just one lesson, whatever it may be, you then use that assessment to split your students into two groups. So the ones who have demonstrated mastery or the ones who have not demonstrated mastery on it. And then what he sort of says in that book. If students are not demonstrating mastery, then that is where you have to have, like, basically your initial instruction didn't work for whatever reason for those students. And so they need some sort of corrective activities. He calls 'em corrective activities. In order to, and, and this needs to be something that's very structured. Done. That's like in the classroom that is, checked by the teacher. Especially when you're first sort of starting these, these things, like you can't go, Hey, go do this worksheet and let's just try again afterwards. Like it needs to be something that's structured. And then once they've done those corrective activities and, and you've worked with them, then they reasses. And then while you're working with those students who haven't mastered it, the ones who have mastered it are doing enrichment activities. So I, I like this because there, there's some folks, like I find when I, when I talk to some of my colleagues, they're, they're very like apprehensive about the whole video.

Katie: 6:50

I get it. I do in a sense, because I know

Rachel: 6:53

how.

Katie: 6:54

intense. It is to create them all and to make them feel your own. Like using somebody else's videos feels unnatural to me because it's not me and it's not my mannerisms and my way of teaching or speaking. So I, I do get that.

Rachel: 7:08

Now, and like to be quite honest too, using somebody else's videos doesn't have the same impact with your students. So I think you're better off if, if you don't have the time to do the videos, like you're still better off doing that live instruction versus using somebody else's video. Yeah.

Katie: 7:25

Yeah,

Rachel: 7:25

Now I, I see lots of parallels, right? Of like the must do, should do, aspire to do classifications. I'm thinking those enrichment activities are aspire to dos, those corrective activities or maybe should dos that become must dos when students haven't demonstrated mastery on their first assessment. So I'm kind of playing around with like, I think my reassessment policy is where I'm kind of getting to. I, I didn't formally, formally define it at the beginning of this semester, and so now I'm thinking that when students are not demonstrating mastery to me on that first mastery check, I'm going to have like really specific activities that I can pull. That I have the students do working with them, either like one-on-one, small group what, or if they're working with peers but then having that check-in with them before I allow them to even do an attempt, a second attempt. So I kind of just wanna add some of that extra structure into my reassessment policies.

Katie: 8:26

Yeah, I agree. I think that's awesome. I think that makes a lot of sense. And I, and I do think, going back to kind of the basics of mastery before diving into something with like the self-paced structures and, and the instructional videos, et cetera, like I, I do think there's something to be said about getting a handle on mastery itself and then building from there. I, I don't want to. Please. No, I'm not diminishing modern classroom project at all. I actually think it has so much future potential for the way I want to structure my classroom. It's just, it's too much, too quickly, and so I know that it's going to take me time to get comfortable and build up everything to make it successful.

Rachel: 9:04

Yeah. It, it, it is, it is like, I don't know, maybe an easier place to start.

Katie: 9:09

Yeah, it does sound that way. So like, wrap your head around mastery. Get used to like the structure in the classroom and, and how it kind of shifts the focus from going through the curriculum as quickly as possible because there's that pressure on you to focusing on that mastery of tasks for all students. So making sure they can all get those skills.

Rachel: 9:27

and I can see those working quite easily. Like you could do one day live instruction with your class, like, you know, maybe a small mini lesson, whatever it may be. Your students then work when they work on activities and practice and applying their knowledge, that can be all kind of self-paced within your period. You do a mastery check or it, it's basically an exit ticket anyway, at the end of your class. And then before your next class, you're checking those exit tickets, those mastery checks, deciding for the next day, okay, who's doing enrichment activities? What are they doing? Who's gonna be working with me in small groups or one-on-one, depending on what they need. Doing those corrective activities. And then you can even do that second mastery check like the next day, right? So I, I think it's something that can fit within. Pretty traditional teaching. And isn't, isn't a huge, huge stretch. It's just a different sort of way of rethinking maybe how you structure your day to day a little bit.

Katie: 10:27

And, and it also gives that flexibility for those who wanna go a little more intense with their mastery with teaching partners who perhaps want that more traditional aspect to it.

Rachel: 10:35

So um, the other, the other sort of thing I'm thinking about for myself is I, like, I, I love the whole structure of modern classrooms. I am, I am all in. And it's because I've been doing so much flip classroom and stuff like that in years past. So one of the things I'm sort of going to play with is with that self-pacing time. I actually wanna start creating seating charts that I change every day, depending on what lessons students are working out on and what students I wanna pull first to work with more closely in one-on-one sort of, or smaller groups.

Katie: 11:14

Now question. Will that cause some students to be less motivated so they can sit with their peers.

Rachel: 11:21

I don't know. I guess we'll see

Katie: 11:22

Mm-hmm. you'll have to let me know because I, I hate seating plans because some of my students react to them poorly. So they're like, no, well then I'm not gonna, you know, work as quickly as I was, or I'm not gonna do this. I'm gonna kind of take my time now, or I'm gonna change my focus. I don't know,

Rachel: 11:37

I, think it, I think it's gonna be more just like. this table group here, like if you're working on this particular lesson, like this is where you wanna be today. This table group at the back is working on this lesson, this table group here working on this lesson. Like, it's not gonna be super, super formal in terms of seating plans, but I just wanna give them like the spaces that they can go to, almost like having stations, I guess, in a way.

Katie: 12:03

Yeah. And I think that makes more sense. Like I was picturing most classrooms don't have groups of desks, and so I wasn't, I think I was picturing more like pairs or rows. But, but I hate those But no, if it's groupings and it's like intentional groupings of, Hey, if you're working on this, go here, I think it's gonna be received differently and I think kids would be open to that.

Rachel: 12:21

Yeah, that's not my classroom. I immediately, in September, that was the first thing I did is all of our desks are all in groups and it's been wonderful.

Katie: 12:29

same here. And I love it and I, I don't ever wanna go back, so I'm hoping that like whenever I share with people, I have to be like, hope you like the seating arrangement, Or it becomes like a, you change one time. I change one time and then we're all good.

Rachel: 12:44

Another big thing for me, like I, I have big lofty dreams for semester two, so we're gonna see how this goes. But another, another sort of big thing for me is I love, love, love the ideas in the Thinking Classrooms book, and I have done lots of, they're, they're not really thinking c. Tasks per se, but work at the whiteboards on those vertical surfaces. And um, I've done that for years in in my classroom and I found I didn't have as many activities this semester just because it was like planning all of the new curriculum. and all the lessons and recording videos and all of that sort of stuff. So that got kind of pushed to the side. So another one of my goals is incorporating those. I, I almost wanna do them at the beginning of almost every period where we're all getting into randomized groups of three. We're working on a problem of the day that's related to the on pace lesson.

Katie: 13:43

I think one of my goals is more un grading. I am excited to do some more learning and exploration around un grading. I've been trying some different things, like allowing students to replace marks with something that they've done that's, that shows that or demonstrates that skill better or more effectively. And I really like it. I would love to be able to get rid of Mark Book in total, but I, I don't, I don't know how. Make that work in my head and logically with the Ontario system. So I know that probably won't happen but I might have some conversations to see about how we can start to consider that as an option and what that could look like in the classroom.

Rachel: 14:19

Well, I feel like I've heard rumors that our board might be getting rid of Mark Book anyway, so

Katie: 14:24

Well, yeah, but any sort of reporting system where you have to record grades, et cetera.

Rachel: 14:29

Yeah. No, it, it is it is a bit of a challenge. And all of the uh, the grading and the rubrics and stuff that we've done with our grade nine course, like we are going to be relooking at those two. because you're right. It is really challenging to take what you know is best for kids, right? And, and that that un grading kind of mindset and mesh it with a system that is all about the grades.

Katie: 14:55

I know. And, and so many people are grade motivated, right? And so we need to shift that to learning motivated, but we'll get there. Baby steps, baby steps.

Rachel: 15:05

Now I have to say, so we, and, and, and this was a lot of my idea too, is we developed all of these mastery rubrics for the skills. Do you remember me talking about that, Katie? Yeah. So we had all of these mastery rubrics and we had descriptions for the Got it level, the almost, or the not yet. None of us love this. Like we've, we've used it for a semester now and okay, it's, it's okay and it works. We're finding that the almost bucket is like where all the students are ending up, like a good majority of the time, and so you're not getting too much distinguishing between those students who are, are just in the almost stage and the ones that are close to. Moving up to the the got it or the mastered stage. we, we've had a few conversations, we haven't fully talked about this yet, but almost moving away from those mastery rubrics per se, and coming up with, say, for the scales, like a checklist of, here are all the things, like if we were looking at variables in a, in a lab report, what are the look fors, enlisting those and having that as like a checklist of sorts. And then, the rubric. Part of it would just be, it's a level four. If they have 80% or greater of those things there present, and they're, they're well done. right? Like they've mastered, I guess 80% of that criteria. And then a level three would be mastered 70% of that criteria and so on. So it would still be kind of conforming with the levels. And so it's, it's almost taking a little bit of a step backwards.

Katie: 16:48

I. it almost ha I know when you're working with un grading structures and, and checklists and mastery, putting them within the context of a a hundred point system, it has to happen somewhere because we do have to report marks. And so I, I've been doing the same, like I just do a, a checklist style and then the ones that they've done, I check off and we're good. The ones that they haven't, I circle and explain next steps to get there.

Rachel: 17:11

now, I'm thinking when we enter it though, we still enter in just a four, three, a two, or one. and then we, we can look at and still take most recent, most consistent. So we're replacing grades as students are progressing in their skills so that they're not being penalized by how quickly or how slowly they learn. Cuz that's something like I really, really believe in. And then um, Still looking at it a little bit more holistically, like not taking an average, just an average of all the values. But then we can look at, say, you know, all the, the fours. The threes. We could look at how often, how frequently they show up maybe, or even if we are taking an average, then creating that scale to be able to convert it to a percentage at some point.

Katie: 17:58

Yeah, it's all about like trial and error. yeah, what works best, what is the best fit for this context,

Rachel: 18:04

Now I have to say, I don't wanna change a thing for my my grade 11 course, though

Katie: 18:08

good.

Rachel: 18:08

accept maybe bringing in, like I said, some more whole group activities, a little bit more whole group activities. Some practice, most, like at the beginning of classes and stuff, but in terms of the grading structure for that course, like, I love it and it's, it's gotten really, really sort of great feedback from students as well.

Katie: 18:28

that's kind of an indicator that it's working. Like if students are okay with it and liking it, then that shows that it's actually, it's doing what it should be doing.

Rachel: 18:37

Yeah. I don't, I don't see the, any reason to change anything that I'm doing there. I would love to bring all of those structures into the grade nine course, but I think it's, it's just, it's a little bit too out there for most folks, so It's okay. It's okay. The other big thing I wanna add in is individual trackers. And so I didn't do individual trackers for. this semester, especially for a grade nine course because honestly, I didn't know the pacing

Katie: 19:05

well that's fair.

Rachel: 19:06

We were like, we were creating it as we as we went. So now that I've gone through it a semester and I've gotten a feel for the pacing and I know where I can pull stuff now and put stuff in and tweak my sort of timelines, I think it'll be really helpful for my students to. An individual tracker themselves. Like we still have our, our progress tracker that we put up at the beginning of, of every class. But having that individual tracker then to have, say all of the suggested dates that each lesson should be done. I think having that upfront will be really helpful for keeping students a little bit more on pace.

Katie: 19:48

I, I like that. And then I don't know if you said paper or electronic trackers.

Rachel: 19:52

I, I'm debating between those two.

Katie: 19:55

as like a student, I, I need the paper. I need to like be able to like physically interact with it and say, okay, I've done this. Okay, next step, next step. I need that visual reminder. But not everybody's like that.

Rachel: 20:05

I know, You know what? I might actually give him a choice.

Katie: 20:08

Yeah, I like that. That makes sense.

Rachel: 20:10

And honestly, it's not something I want to track in any form or shape or way. if they wanna use it, they can use it. They have all the dates there. Like I think that's just the important part is to help them think about how they're planning their time and using their time in class. But if they choose not to use it, I'm okay with that. I don't need extra things to track on my plate.

Katie: 20:36

not at all.

Rachel: 20:37

I also just started this week as, as we're kind of wrapping up our first semester, I started creating a slide that I post up every single day at the beginning of class with uh, this week. And so it's just a summary of Monday. Here is the on pace lesson. Tuesday, here's the on pace lesson. Maybe Wednesday we have a test. Here are the lessons that are covered. And so just like listing out day by day a schedule and so far, that seems to be pretty well received too. I figure I might as well try a couple of these things in, in the end of our first semester just to see what the feedback is before I go all in next semester.

Katie: 21:14

I think one thing that I do want to change, and I'm not sure how I'm going to change it, is finding more time for my lowest level English language learners. I e my ESL as. because I think in some ways I need to do better for them. And so I'm, I'm trying to think of how I can use the strength of some of the other students to help them. And then I also need to make a little bit of a seating plan, which breaks my heart to break up some of the language groups because I have some that are relying on. Only their first language and, and peers with the same first language to, to kind of work through it. And I really wanna build some more meaningful connections across the whole classroom. So that's going to be my challenge, how I can motivate and get my lowest level language learners who have the most to learn a little more engaged. so stay tuned. I have no idea what that will look like yet. isn't it always the challenge?

Rachel: 22:12

Yeah. I find, I find that can be kind of challenging, especially when you're doing a little bit more self-pacing. And that structure is sometimes there are certain students that you don't quite always get to or you, you need to spend more time with, and you're, you're not spending as much time with as, as you can, so,

Katie: 22:30

and, and they're not as vocal because they don't necessarily have the language to be vocal. And so it ends up being that I'm like, oh, why didn't you tell me? And so uh, yeah, no. So I see some, some ways that I can improve and change and I just need to kind of brainstorm ways to, get them more and get them more engaged and, and, give them a little more agency.

Rachel: 22:51

So that could be where those intentional seating plans, but like changing it up every day based on pairings that you wanna do, like that could be something that could be pretty helpful.

Katie: 23:04

Yeah. And, and I may start by randomizing them a little bit every day to, to get them to interact with new people every day. Because often. those connections won't happen until you actually talk to.

Rachel: 23:15

talk to.

Katie: 23:16

that's different or new that you haven't given an opportunity. So I think I'm gonna mix it up a bit more.

Rachel: 23:21

I think I remember reading in the Building Thinking Classrooms book that it takes about 20 odd days for that to feel normal for students. So if you're, if you are like, to try randomized groupings and you get a lot of like grumbling from your students and students not being happy because they're not with their friend groups. It's worthwhile persisting and sticking with it for a full month because usually by the be by the end of like the third week or so, it's just become the norm. But it can take that long for students to get used to it.

Katie: 23:58

Oh, I believe it That'll be all of February. for me. Stay tuned. I, yeah, I'm not sure about you, but I think those are my biggest changes or the, the, the things that I really wanna focus on for semester two. I'm sure we could go on and on for hours, but, I'm

Rachel: 24:14

but, uh, I'm trying not to be super critical of myself.

Katie: 24:18

and also trying to be

Rachel: 24:19

realistic trying to be Yeah, same, same for sure. I, I think those are sort of my main ideas. I, I had a lot of ideas, so that's gonna keep me pretty busy for this semester and. I think it's always just something I need to keep in mind for myself is that nothing's ever going to be perfect and that I'm always growing and learning. And yes, this semester didn't go quite as how I would I had envisioned it, but we did a pretty good job for implementing the first time through You know, I'm pretty excited about some of the, the new stuff that we can bring in now, now that we have sort of a framework that we can build off of.

Katie: 24:59

I think it's amazing and it's, life never goes how we want it to. It's never perfect. So really, embrace the imperfection,

Rachel: 25:08

Yeah. I forget where I heard it, but there's somewhere that says like, change and change in education. And implementing that change can take like a good three years in order for it to like really be at a place where it's functioning really well.

Katie: 25:23

Yeah, that does not surprise me at all.

Rachel: 25:25

so take your time with it, It's a good reminder for ourselves.

Katie: 25:29

Yes. One that we dearly need

Rachel: 25:32

All right, so on that note, we are going to wrap up our conversation here today. And so what we'll do is we'll link any of the resources or links that we talked about here today in our show notes, and so you can access our show notes for this episode@edugals.com slash one 12. That's edu G a l s.com/one 12.

Katie: 25:55

And if you like what you heard, then feel free to share it with a colleague or a friend. And don't forget to subscribe on your

Rachel: 26:01

Subscribe,

Katie: 26:01

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Rachel: 26:04

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Katie: 26:19

Thanks for

Rachel: 26:20

for

Katie: 26:20

and see you next week.